A Guide to Healing SELF-BLAME for ANYONE (ft. Dehlia)
Hi, awakening love, we are Kiyomi and Alexis, a ROCD coach and therapist, and are here to help you holistically find freedom from relationship OCD and anxiety. We're here to show you that you're just human and you're not alone. Your suffering doesn't have to feel so scary. We're here to teach you how you can use this darkness as a way to awaken into deeper fulfillment, empowerment, and love within yourself, your partner, and your life. Here's to being human.
Kiyomi: [00:00:29] For any of you who are listening right now who tend to kind of go into this self-blame and this guilt within yourself where you're like, Oh my God, it's my fault, there's something inherently wrong with me. Why is this happening in a way where I must have created something to have caused this? And this podcast is really for you. Hi Dehlia, I'm so happy to have you.
Dehlia: [00:00:52] Thank you Kiyomi. It feels so good to be here and to finally be doing this with you.
Kiyomi: [00:00:57] Yes, I always like to ask this for a lot of people who have also been on the journey for a while with Awaken into Love. Do you ever feel in the past that you would be possibly doing a podcast or anything content-wise with us?
Dehlia: [00:01:09] Oh, absolutely not. I mean, because I found Kiyomi. I found you in 2017 on YouTube. So you were like, this content creator for me that I didn't have a relationship with at all. And then, you know, I started and then I said yes to the course. And then, I mean, now it's been four years. So I've been with you for four years now and with Alexis. And yeah, it's just crazy because the tables now turn now I'm joining you on like the content. And so it's really cool to see it come full circle.
Kiyomi: [00:01:43] It's so cool and it's always so humbling for me too. You know, as someone who has been creating like the content and the course to always see people who have taken the course and who have done this work and who just kind of come out and transform and they almost like start to support other people and help other people. Like, I've really noticed that for a lot of our course members. So I'm so happy to have you. I feel like we have a really important topic to talk about today, which I feel 99.9% of people with ROCD experience, and it's something that I wish was talked a little bit about when I had ROCD, which is along the lines of kind of the self-blame that people tend to go through when they have ROCD constantly feeling this sense of guilt and the fear and the shame that what they experience is their fault. So for any of you who are listening right now who tend to kind of go into this self-blame and this guilt within yourself where you're like, Oh my God, it's my fault, there's something inherently wrong with me. Why is this happening in a way where I must have created something to have caused this? And this podcast is really for you. Dehlia, I know that you have spoken about how you have a lot of personal experience around this type of feeling. So I'm curious as we start this podcast, why do you feel like this specific topic is really important to talk about today?
Dehlia: [00:03:10] Definitely. This specific topic, as I was coming up with things that I might want to share with you and with the audience was something that just kind of kept coming up in the last two days for me, culminating around my journey. But I just think it's something that is present from day one. You know, I mean, as soon from the first day that you're experiencing OCD and ROCD and from, you know, if you found Kiyomi from finding the program and realizing that you have options, it's a feeling you can understand then. And it's a feeling, I think that you can understand as you go. But the longer that you go, you know that guilt and that shame and you begin to unravel it in layers, you have a different relationship with it. So I really it's a topic that is for everyone, no matter what point they are in their ROCD journey and it's a point, it stops even being in your ROCD journey and it just becomes your life like your spiritual journey and it gets so much better. So I think it's a good one for everybody, no matter where you're at because I know and I still am even learning about it more today.
Kiyomi: [00:04:25] Yeah, I think that also like for a lot of people, they don't really realize how much of the blame and the self-blame within themself of this is my fault. This is my fault with ROCD, like how much it impacts them. So I'm sure that when you've started the journey of ROCD, you probably didn't realize how prevalent it was for you, right? Like this kind of this distortion? Would you say that it was something like really in the back of your mind that you had to unpack? Or was it something where you kind of knew right away like, OK, I know that I go into this self-blame and I know that I kind of go into this specific habit? Or was it something where you're like, Wow, I didn't realize that this was really a big root of a lot of the obsessive thoughts that were kind of being fueled?
Dehlia: [00:05:11] I think I was unaware. Even as you're speaking about it and kind of elaborate, you know, so much of a root cause of something is that it's hidden, you know, are really good things because they stabilize us and they provide a framework to them. But, you know, roots are also something that you can't see. And if it's a root that you're trying to pull up in your life or redirect or transform in any way, you are not always aware that it's there. And if it is there, you might even see it as a really good thing, you know, and at some point, I think we stop judging, you know, our roots or our coping mechanisms or our personality traits are, you know, good or bad, especially if you've kind of been at that work for a while and you just start to realize what's working in your life and what's not. So I think for me personally, bringing it back as I didn't realize I had this root of guilt or self-blame, and I never would have probably noticed it unless it had been for my ROCD journey and starting this work. But once I did start to notice it, even then, I was kind of oblivious. I know in course we talk about, you know, it's so common to like, blame yourself or feel like it's your fault. You know, a big thing that you and Alexis always say is it's not your fault that it didn't start with you. And I heard that for years, I'd been in all of the courses and like all of the classes and I was like, Yeah, yeah, I get it. But I think until I really started to connect where that feeling was manifesting in my life and how it didn't click for me until that moment,
Kiyomi: [00:06:54] I think that there's also just like this the sense of like not really knowing, you know when it's like unconsciously going right and also like starting to become more familiar with it is starting to recognize that we're in this cycle. We're in this pattern. And a lot of times people don't realize it's going on because they don't associate that the feeling is triggering it or something and specifically triggering it. And I know that that that the habit of kind of self-blame for people is like very similar. There's a certain type of feelings or certain type of thoughts. So I'm curious for you, Dehlia, how you were able to recognize that you were in the self-blame. Were there certain feelings that would come up or do you notice yourself getting triggered by certain things?
Dehlia: [00:07:39] Yes. Yes, for sure. I think what comes to mind even immediately is, you know, self-blame and any coping mechanism, really, but especially this one doesn't really come up unless something goes wrong. So if you're operating from this perspective of like, oh, I'm doing everything right, like, you know, I'm making all the right decisions and everything's going well. That guilt or that blame really isn't there. So its moment of arrival on the scene is literally when something goes wrong. And that's life and relationships, you know? So I think to understand that you know, even the best things, even really good things have conflict and kind of moving from this perspective that if I do all the right things, everything will be copacetic and there won't be anything bad. It kind of protects you from feeling that self-blame and that self-guilt. So you kind of have to mess up or just have conflict in order to trigger that. And I think for someone who struggles with that, it would look like you would need to pay attention to when things start to go wrong in your life, in your relationship, in anything, you know, because I think the first thing that you do is say, you know, this is my fault. You know, there are situations where you can be at fault for something, and then there are situations that feel like you are inherently the one to blame for something.
Kiyomi: [00:09:14] Yes. And it is all on you.
Dehlia: [00:09:16] Yeah. And I think that's the difference. I think it's really, you know, it's a really good adaptation to be able to own when we're wrong about something and, you know, take the steps to fix it. That's part of being a productive human. But when it crosses the line into the area, more like. This is something that happened because of me, because of something that's inherently wrong with me. And then it triggers thoughts of I'm going to lose something that's important to me or I can't talk about this with anyone because if they knew they would, you know, be upset or they would lash out. But I think it for me at least, and hopefully, this resonates for other people is that it really was this fear of loss associated with I'm inherently bad. And if I don't fix this and if I don't address this, then I will lose something very, very important to me.
Kiyomi: [00:10:08] Yes. And that's really like the core of what fuels this coping mechanism of there's something wrong that I did, and a lot of people don't realize that it is a coping mechanism. It is a protective mechanism where it's almost like this false illusion where it goes to OK. If there is something that's difficult going on in our life, then I can at least control it in some way. If I take that self-blame and I take that guilt in that ownership that I can kind of control and do something about it, right? And then it kind of it. But then it feeds that cycle of that self-blame and kind of going back and back and back to every time something difficult happens, then it goes into the pattern of the kind of like those thoughts that can be so mean toward ourselves and so painful.
Dehlia: [00:10:59] I feel like those thoughts kind of they just feel like the sticky undercurrent of like, no matter what I do, no matter how good I feel, no matter what progress I make. Like, if something's bad like you go for whatever reason to that space of like, well, I'm not good enough and I did some wrong. And like, you know, it's also a very lonely process. I think when you're really stuck in that cycle because you don't feel like it's a problem you can bring to other people because you have this fear of, you know, like being told that you're bad or that you're wrong or of being rejected in some way.
Kiyomi: [00:11:34] And it's like a confirmation of what you've been telling yourself anyway.
Dehlia: [00:11:37] Right, exactly. So it's a very lonely perpetuating cycle, and it's probably confusing for other people on the outside because most of the time when you open up about things, it's not the response you get.
Kiyomi: [00:11:49] Of course, there is something interesting that you said that I kind of wants to go into, which was like when something wrong happens, which I thought was really interesting, how you brought that up. You're like when going. I asked you, I said, you know, like, when do you notice yourself getting triggered or what do you know is herself going into obsessive thoughts and you said when something wrong happens? So let's go into that for a second. What do you mean by something wrong? Because, you know, there's like different types of external situations that are going to happen, right? And they're part of life. But what did you mean when you said wrong?
Dehlia: [00:12:21] What I mean, so honestly, I think that's the cover where they use for when anything goes bad, like, for example, in my personal life, we got a ticket on the car yesterday and I was really disappointed in myself and I immediately was like, my partner is disappointed in me, like because this is my fault like he probably just thinks I'm irresponsible. He probably thinks this is a mess. Like, why didn't I do something to like, prevent this from happening? Like, I'm terrible. I'm like, it just went on and on and on, and it was all obviously in my head. As far as like, I wasn't even consciously thinking these thoughts. But at one point during the day, I looked him and I was like, I feel really badly about the ticket on the car. I feel like you might think it's my fault. And he was like, No, I don't think this is your fault. He's like, I don't think it's anybody's fault. He's like, Want a situation to cast blame? He's like, it's just more of a frustrating situation. And I was like, Yeah, it is like, I'm glad that like, I was like, I know you don't think it's my fault, but sometimes I feel like I've let you down or I've disappointed somebody, or I could have done something better. So, you know, that's a small example, but obviously, there's a spectrum of things that can go wrong, and especially when it's in our close relationships or things that feel really important to us, it's so easy for that story to come up of, you know, something bad is happening. There's conflict happening like, you know, something is not going to plan. And it's not all rainbows and butterflies, right? So it's twofold. It's accepting that that's life and that happens and also knowing that it's not bad. But until I think you really address that emotional root of why do I feel like this is my fault? And how can I explore that and support myself in this? And then, you know, the next step is voicing that to people like that kind of really is important.
Kiyomi: [00:14:25] And what's so interesting about it, too, is that it's like it's almost like the language that we're using within this situation is like, it's wrong and it's bad versus like, it is a challenge. It is a circumstance. It is a difficulty. Like, it's almost like there's this inherent badness within it that it's not supposed to happen. And that kind of starts to create more of that sense of this is wrong. I did something wrong. This isn't supposed to happen, right? Instead of this is life circumstance and life is about these challenges and we're going to get a ticket. And I mean, so much easier said than done. But it's interesting how our brain really goes into this like black or white scenario of bad or good in order for us to feel like, well, at least I can control something and feel some sort of certainty in those specific moments.
Dehlia: [00:15:14] And in some ways. And so like, I think when we label things as good or bad, I know it's a coping mechanism. I think we are familiar with and know that. But as it plays out, it's really interesting because if something's inherently bad, if you or a situation are inherently bad, that's the only outcome. You know, when you feel that way, your brain is telling you that is the only outcome. You shouldn't try to do anything because you have no options like, that's it, right? And it's really heartbreaking. And I think it's very devastating to live from that perspective. And it's not empowering. So a really exciting part about starting to work with that and realizing that there are many possibilities in a spectrum of what a situation or what a person or what a relationship or anything. Just fill in the blank can be. You start to realize that there are so many more options available to you than just good or bad, and within that space, it becomes workable, which is something we talk about a lot in Awaken into Love.
Kiyomi: [00:16:13] It's so incredible, and we'll definitely be talking about that at the end of the podcast. Kind of like ways and how people can start working with this, for sure. I think that it's such a fascinating subject. I know you and I were talking about at the beginning of the podcast, kind of before we started the podcast about the spectrum of how, you know, there are people who are on kind of like opposite ends of the spectrum. So if people are listening to the podcast and you can't see me, I have just both of my hands up. There's one side of the spectrum, which is one extreme, which is a person that tends to blame the world. They're the type of person that is going into almost like narcissistic tendencies where it's like, OK, it's everyone's fault, but mine. It's their issue. It has nothing to do with me. And it's very much this outward projection without taking any type of self-responsibility. So that's one complete opposite end of the spectrum. And then there's another complete opposite end of the spectrum, which is most people with ROCD would say like 99% of people with ROCD and anxiety, which is very much similar with like you're talking about Dehlia, which is a circumstance happens, something that's challenging happens and a person will typically go into it was my fault. There must be something wrong with me. I did something bad and go into this guilt and shame. And this is really similar to ROCD. Like this ROCD is coming up. Oh, there's something wrong with me. There's something wrong with me. There's something wrong with me. Instead of kind of coming into this balance, more of a secure nervous system, which is OK, sometimes there can be stuff that's challenging, that's outside of the world that was not OK. And then sometimes there's a sense of self-responsibility and merging that together. And I think that that's kind of like what everyone is trying to kind of like move into right is more of that secure nervous system to say, we hold both. We can hold both. And in that way, we can kind of find our empowerment within that.
Dehlia: [00:18:04] Absolutely.
Kiyomi: [00:18:05] Yeah, yeah. So I'm curious. I know we kind of talked about the different thoughts that you have experienced with kind of it's my fault. Do you notice if there are specific feelings that come up for you, especially feelings that you have not really noticed to be like the evident forms of feelings that kind of come with, it's my fault?
Dehlia: [00:18:33] Feelings that come up at the moment you mean or.
Kiyomi: [00:18:36] Like, how do you know when you're kind of starting to go into that self-blame? What is that kind of that marker for you?
Dehlia: [00:18:42] Yes. I think fear is the biggest marker. That's how it always manifested. And still, it sometimes manifests for me when people ask about my relationship with anxiety or how I started to work with it. I always am honest and say, you know, the biggest fear, the biggest emotion that comes up for me when I'm working in this area is fear. Like some people, it might be anger. For some people, it might be sadness minus fear. So that's a really good tell. I think. So I know I'm in that headspace if I'm in conflict or something's not going to plan, and I immediately start to feel this sinking, anxious feeling in my chest stuff like, I'm afraid, I'm afraid, and I start reviewing everything I've done. You know, I'm like, Did I do something wrong? Is this something that I did? And that is kind of where I think the rumination and kind of picks up.
Kiyomi: [00:19:44] So the fear, the fear is it's like a sensation in your chest. Where do you how do you know that the fear is there? And I always like to ask these types of questions because really, as we start to kind of go into awakening, it's really about starting to build this relationship with yourself right? Like, we had a little bit more intimate and personal with like, Oh, what is here? And being kind of that curiosity? And for some people, it's different. So I'm just saying this for everyone listening right now and starting to like, develop this relationship with what does fear feel like? When do I get triggered with, you know, what type of circumstances do I notice the ROCD coming up? So do you start to notice it like in your chest? Like, what would you say? How do you know that the fear is there?
Dehlia: [00:20:23] Also notice that in my chest, also in my throat. So for my personal relationship with fear, if I'm like, I'm usually very talkative and like, I have a very bold quality in my personality. If I'm afraid that goes away. So like my throat, which is the center of speech and like telling the truth that immediately feels start starts to feel closed off. So it's kind of like a heart and chest centered feeling, but it also kind of crawls up into my throat and I'm like, Oh,
Kiyomi: [00:20:54] I can't like almost like a sense of like like your speech, your throat kind of starts to feel like cut off like you can't express.
Dehlia: [00:21:01] Yes, because if I feel afraid and I think something's my fault, usually my coping, my reaction to that if I'm not like an awakened state is too close up to ruminate, to self analyze and to not share my experience out of fear.
Kiyomi: [00:21:18] Yes. So what would you say? I'm actually really curious. What would you say is that is like the specific trigger with the fear coming up is that when you start to notice that there's a possible sense of conflict that might happen, like is it a sense of like, oh, like so I'm curious, like, have you noticed a specific trigger that kind of tends to bring up those feelings?
Dehlia: [00:21:39] No, I'm not in a heightened state. I can use a little bit, but it's kind of like, Oh, shit, like was that me
Kiyomi: [00:21:50] Right? Like, almost like an oh crap like, like a tightening like that must have been me. Or that that could have been something that.
Dehlia: [00:21:57] It's also an inner child where it's really helpful, I think, in this arena. But it's almost like that little kid who's like, I did something I wasn't supposed to do. Oh, no. Like, I can't tell my mom and dad like it is that young of a feeling. So imagine a little kid who's hiding or scared because they did something wrong, and they're afraid that something bad is going to happen because of it, fess up to it, you know,
Kiyomi: [00:22:23] Like, I can't tell my mom, Oh my god, oh no. If I tell my parents, like, what's going to happen to that type of stuff, that fear. It's so interesting how much inner child work is connected with this. And I know that you spoke a little bit to me about how you've done a lot of inner child work with this. Would you be able to talk to the audience just how you've been working with inner child work alongside this and how they could maybe also start to incorporate that inner child work with the belief of It's your fault?
Dehlia: [00:22:49] Absolutely. I love inner child work, it's so rewarding, it's also exhausting sometimes, but it can also be really fun, so it's a little all over the board, much like if you have a child and you're a parent having a child, just like that. So it's a similar relationship with your younger kiddo inside. But I worked on a lot of inner child work with Alexis, and that was kind of the catalyst for me within this arena of my mental health. But how do I do it? A lot of it is, inner child work is great in a crisis moment. I think that's kind of how a lot of people stumble into it is like a crisis and they're like, Oh my God, I have this screaming child inside of me. And a lot of times a therapist can guide you through that. So that was my introduction to inner child work.
Kiyomi: [00:23:42] It's almost like the child gets to a point where it's like enough, like listen to me. And it seems like that's what really happened. Like, when you're so like that crisis moment, it's like, Oh my god, something is like, really like exploding within me.
Dehlia: [00:23:54] Absolutely. And like, your adult self can't handle it or feels like you can't. So reaching out to that inner child is very empowering because you start to understand why you feel that way now, even if the timeline of when that feeling was born in you was years ago. So my favorite inner child work started when I was probably like my four-year-old self, you know, connecting with my four-year-old inner child with a very traumatic experience at that time, and understanding how that trapped energy essentially was still informing how I felt as an adult in this present moment. Yeah, because a lot of times some of those like something always really helpful for me was knowing like something we say in Awaken into Love and relationships as if it feels overwhelming a lot of times like if it's an overreaction, that's your inner child. So kind of knowing that in the situation was helpful. But once you start to really, I mean, the essence of it is you give that child what you needed at that time. So it's a lot of visualization, but it's also physical. So I would take a long walk and imagine like my inner kiddo next to me because I knew in that moment of that trauma that child needed to be taken out of that environment and allowed to, calm down. So that's something I still incorporate.
Kiyomi: [00:25:25] It's such a powerful thing.
Dehlia: [00:25:27] Yeah. Like if I need a moment, I need to walk. Which it has so many benefits too, but just mentally and emotionally and spiritually in a lot of ways, bringing that kiddo with you is very healing, and from that centered, soothed part of you. You then can bring your requests to other people and start full effect changes. But it's an internal positioning within yourself that then affects the external world and the external positioning of the world affects your inner space. It's very it's like taking that power back and making something happen.
Kiyomi: [00:26:05] So powerful, so powerful. How do you feel as though the self-blame has manifested in terms of inner child? Like, did it? Do you feel like it stemmed from something in the past, like when you kind of tap into that energy, when you notice yourself going to that self-blame, does it? Is it resonant of something that had occurred in the past that had kind of created that, that internal dialog?
Dehlia: [00:26:28] Oh, absolutely. So I just from an epigenetic standpoint and from my family, my mom's side is very Christian and very Catholic. Catholic guilt was a very real thing that my mom unpacked and then my dad's side was also Christian and more of the southern, the southern Christian like that kind of influence. So I was raised from the time I can remember in church. So there was a lot of being the good kid and doing this and doing that. And I think a lot of people can relate kind of with that archetype of religion and experience, especially when we're younger. But yeah, so I think a lot of my guilt and blame kind of came kind of grew up with me like through that. But another great part is I have a really beautiful spiritual inheritance from my family. So even though my family kind of especially on the female side, like my maternal side, there was a lot of wrestling that my grandmother and my mother did with a lot of that guilt. So I feel really poised and fortunate because, yeah, I'm enjoying some of that work, but it's definitely not a surprise where it comes from.
Kiyomi: [00:27:45] It's like that good or bad mindset, right? Again, like when you were saying, like, I'm a good person.
Dehlia: [00:27:50] Yeah, especially where I think the people in our lives love us and they're responsible for directing us. They don't want us to do the same things they did. So a lot of my upbringing was, don't do this, don't do that, you know, like, be careful, be safe, make the right decisions. And that was well-intended. But I think it did really reinforce some of that fear, guilt, and shame, especially when I needed to make decisions that were empowering for me, even if they didn't look like what I thought they should.
Kiyomi: [00:28:22] Absolutely. And so it's so fascinating how that I think some people wouldn't even connect the two together on how that experience can bleed into our most intimate relationships and into our partnerships like I think some people would go, Oh yeah, I had an experience, religious traumas, huge. Like, I'm just going to throw that out right here, right off the bat. We see that hugely connected, especially to sexual orientation OCD. We see that really connected to, I mean ROCD, this kind of this fear, this intense fear in the sense of shame and guilt that I'm wrong and I'm bad, which then feeds into the black or white thinking right, which is the cognitive distortion, which then feeds into obsessive thoughts for some people. But how interesting. And I don't know if this resonates with you, Dehlia, of how such an experience could tie into our partnerships, right? Like, it's such a surprise with that. Is that something that was surprising for you when you kind of started to do work around this that it had started to bleed? Well, I'm sure it probably was manifesting in your other relationships too, friendships too, and everything like that. Maybe career, but also but then also that it bleeds into the romantic relationship. This always really can be surprising for people.
Dehlia: [00:29:36] Yeah, so much of my upbringing was centered around marriage to, you know like I was an only daughter. My mom and my grandma had this really strong narrative around marriage and what marriage should be like. You know, and witnessing my parents' marriage. So I was always. You know, I was I always had that on my mind, even from a young age, the way that I was raised, more so than career, more so than friendships. That was kind of like the
Kiyomi: [00:30:04] big emphasis was relationships.
Dehlia: [00:30:07] So I think it's not surprising to me that's how I am wired. It's been. And obviously, you know, everyone knows OCD attacks what's most important to you, but relationships were really and still are my relationship is really important to me. But with that now there's an expansion of a lot of other things that are important to me too, which is the part of, I think, working on OCD as you start to take back other areas of your life. But I'm deviating from your question.
Kiyomi: [00:30:40] That's totally fine. And I think that it's like, it sounds like it was surprising, but also not too surprising at the same time, because also, it's true ROCD does attack the things that we most care about, right? And it's going to bring up our deepest wounds. And I think that that's why it's so important for, you know, us as just at Awaken into Love, to speak about how our most intimate relationships are going to bring up the most painful woundings that we didn't even know were there, that were tied to religious trauma that we may or may not have been surprised about,
Dehlia: [00:31:16] especially, I think, religious trauma for me. And this may not be the case for everybody, but for me, it manifested in I need to make this culture and this lifestyle around what I believe, which is true. Like, we all do that. But I think for me, it was more a trauma reaction of I'm going to make this version of myself very comfortable, I'm not going to because I'm in a safe environment and safe environments are really, really good. But for me, that also meant not going after things that challenged me of not addressing wounding I had because I could choose things that allowed me not to, which is like human nature. I think we all kind of shy away from those, but I reached a point in my life where I was really starting to expand, and I was really starting to gain a deeper understanding of what it meant to be in a relationship with spirituality. You know, with, you know, the universe or a higher power, a god, but also what that meant and like an earthly realm. And so once I started opening that door, I immediately attracted my partner, who immediately challenged all of these preconceived notions I had about myself and what I was choosing. And there was a moment where I was like, wow, I get to choose something different. And it was a great moment for me because I did want those things, but it definitely was a crisis.
Kiyomi: [00:32:50] Yes. And I think that
Dehlia: [00:32:52] from what I was to what I wanted to be with this very, very loud invitation through my heart.
Kiyomi: [00:32:59] Absolutely. And I think that that's like going back into this idea of, I think that if we were to almost create this like a model or this like preconditioned like paper that was like, Hey, relationships are going to bring out a lot of your wounding, they're going to bring out like different sort of trauma. They're going to bring out like all these things. I think that a lot of people would step into relationships with more of like this, like the feeling of understanding and not go into like so much of that back and forth black or white thinking that this is wrong because I'm experiencing this. And then like, another piece that you're talking about, too, is like this sometimes complete collapse of what you thought it was going to look like in an identity of like what you thought the relationship was going to be, how you were going to be like something completely different again as not being bad, but something that has challenged you from what I feel into like a different version of yourself right, which is kind of like expanded you.
Dehlia: [00:33:57] And it's so funny because like, I'm smiling so much because I look back at that moment now, and I'm so grateful that I'm so glad that that happened and I can laugh because it was so scary. I was so scared. But you're right, it would be complete. That's the word. It was the complete collapse of who I was in that moment and into something new. And in hindsight, it incorporated so many more portions of my personality in the life that I really wanted to lead and kind of let go of. So it was really cool to realize that I didn't need to choose a life that echoed my own comfort, but I could choose a life that was full of things that involved risk and like things that were really important to me as a person. And in that way, it became so surprising and individual and like, perfect for me, but never something I could have chosen
Kiyomi: [00:34:58] or imagined, I'm sure.
Dehlia: [00:35:00] Yeah. And so it's not like if I switch back into that, some of those older coping mechanisms, some like, you know if I had chosen that type of life for myself at the time, like, that person doesn't even exist anymore. Like, she's still here in some ways because we always have, you know, older versions of ourselves that we can kind of meet and remember. But yeah, like I can't imagine any life different than the one I have now.
Kiyomi: [00:35:27] It is just so fascinating and I just it gives me so many goosebumps because I think that like kind of going back to our conversation about like, it's our fault and that self-blame. It's really those moments of such intense suffering where we go into this place where we're like, It's my fault. Like, something's wrong with me. I'm inherently bad. The more and more that gets greater within us, the more there's like another part of us that's like enough. Something needs to change. Something needs to shift, right? And I know I bring this a lot up at Awaken into Love because that for everyone listening like I want us to start to like, almost invite you to change the perspective around things that are feeling really intense and create suffering in our life are an invitation for an awakening and an evolution and a change, and that's going to sometimes feel freakin' scary as anything. And there's going to be parts of you that are like telling you from like your toes to your head, like, I don't want to do this, but it's really those moments of intense suffering that push us into a new place within ourselves, which I feel like really happened for you, where you probably got to a point where you're like, Oh my God, all this self-blame is causing so much suffering and there's something that's yearning to change, like yearning to shift. And I feel like that was almost like your catalyst in a lot of ways to where you are now. And seeing almost like again, this concept of like how we can look at life and be like, This is wrong, this is bad. If this is happening, this is bad, but it's almost like you've used that fuel and that suffering as a way to go into this place of expansion for yourself, which is so beautiful.
Dehlia: [00:37:14] I love what you said about as much as there's great suffering. There's another part of us pushing and saying, No, that's enough because it really does feel that way. And it's honestly one of the most beautiful processes because there's just no other way. I mean, there is probably another way. I love that process. It's so true like you just and you end up trusting that that new version in that process. And it's just it's really cool.
Kiyomi: [00:37:42] Yeah, I love it. How do you feel as though, OK, like kind of tying back into like what I was speaking about, but I'm just curious from your mindset, how do you feel as though the self-blame and this kind of obsessive thinking around it's something wrong with me, something bad with me? How do you feel like that has helped you?
Dehlia: [00:38:03] Oh, right. Well, I mean, it got my attention. So it's definitely a good one in that way. It's helped me in a lot of ways, though, because I think we talk about alchemy, right? So we transform whatever material we have into something new. So any type of suffering can be transformed into gold if we choose to. And that's, you know, a birthright as being a human. And I don't know if that's something that we come out all the time and talk about, but it is like truth. And I love that. So I think that was something that was very present for me from the beginning was really knowing that whatever suffering I had, I could transform it. Even if that version of myself felt in awe of that and kind of almost doubtful of like, I'm allowed to do that. Like, there's these preset rules that I've been taught to follow my whole life, and you're telling me that I'm allowed to take something that is bad and change it into something different. Like it was a very powerful realization and one that I think as I settled my nervous system, I was able to grow into that power more because it's yeah, it is kind of like a falling in love with that realization and feeling worthy of it. You know, you're always worthy of it. But really owning that power is a different, different type of work, and it comes with time and effort in layers. But it's your birthright. Everyone can do it.
Kiyomi: [00:39:36] Yeah. Did you ever feel like there was a part within you that was like, Oh, and that's not part? I'm not able to do that.
Dehlia: [00:39:44] I really thought, like, I wasn't like, in fact, the little kiddo. My mom says, I'm not allowed to do that and I don't, but I can come. Yeah, that was my view about all of my higher powers. Like, No, I'm not allowed to do those things. Like, I think spirituality kind of like, you know, God or universe or my higher power, can you give me the space to figure that out? And that's like a lot of work I did with Alexis and like, that was a lot of my OCD. And, you know, all of that therapy worked for me. So I think it's really beautiful because it does. As much as it's a spiritual pursuit, it becomes very like embodied. It becomes embodied because that's where we need a real change too. As much as we're spiritual, we're human. Absolutely. And that's kind of where it connects with the psychology piece of I was like making changes in your life that you love.
Kiyomi: [00:40:43] I love that. Yeah. It's so interesting how it goes back to that inner child of I'm not allowed to do that, right? It's like I have to make sure, it's OK with my mom. And was it a sense of like, I'm not allowed to heal, I'm not allowed to change, I'm not allowed to share is probably more in the mindset of like, OK, this is the way that I was like, I'm probably supposed to live? This is the life that I should be leading. And it kind of tied around to if that is different then that's not OK, I'm not allowed to.
Dehlia: [00:41:11] Yeah, that's literally how it felt. And I think trauma and any type of like heavy conditioning, which again, isn't always bad but can be if it's not working anymore in your life and if you want to, you know, choose something new, I think that energy can be so heavy. One, because it's been around for as long as you've been alive or been taught. And two, because it's just meshed with your idea of who you are. And it's a crazy idea, but we really do have the power to choose what we want to be and what we want to do. And just because I was conditioned a certain way to be something, it took me a minute to realize that I didn't have to choose that even if I really identified with that life at that time. And the more that I said yes to new things and had new experiences that kind of confirmed that I could do that, I was like, I'd have like moments of like, Oh my God, like, this is so surprising. I can't believe that I manifested this. I can't believe that this is something that, like I set out to do, and now the world is responding to me like, it's such an exciting.
Kiyomi: [00:42:28] It's such an exciting. It's like a whole. It's so many different new chapters of life, and it's so beautiful. How amazing. And just keep coming back to this. How amazing that you know. Again, that suffering is really like the concept of like the lotus grows in the mud. You know, it's like really that suffering that really propels us to get into these deeper and deeper states of awakening in this expansion. So I just bring this up just for the audience. Like again, if you're struggling right now, there is that that gem, that diamond, right? That's I think that that's why there are so many metaphors around like the diamond doesn't become a diamond unless it's like really like polished right? And it's like the same type of thing. I feel like you've found a lot of peace, different forms of peace, and different forms of expansion through this journey. And I know that there are people who are listening to this podcast who are like, OK, like, I'm starting to notice that I go into self-blame and I kind of go into these specific patterns. What would you say to those people who are kind of maybe starting out or maybe have known about the specific coping mechanism for a while? What are some things that you would give them in terms of tips or different ways that they could kind of start working on them that have been helpful for you?
Dehlia: [00:43:41] Yeah. Well, I think I want to say inner child work, but I know inner child work where it can be daunting if you haven't had someone to guide you through it yet, but it can be really simple too. So I think like. You know, if you're starting this work and you're starting to notice that you go into self-blame, start with the basics, like think about it really rationally, like journal it, you know, start there. And then as soon as you start this work, that work honors you back, you know, I feel like there is like a reciprocal nature of as soon as you just start to be curious and open to those feelings of self-blame or guilt, you'll begin to realize where it's oriented within yourself a lot more. And that's kind of a good launching point to start working with that trauma, whether that's through inner child work through whatever modality that resonates with you. But yeah, it can be as simple as literally thinking of your inner kiddo and trusting whatever, you know, intuitive thought around that comes up. I think when I first started, I would question like, is this a good starting point? Like, Is this image from my childhood a good one to go with? But like, I think really building that trust within yourself of like I have what it is within me to do this work and to understand where this self-doubt and this blame comes from. And I can trust every step that I take towards that goal.
Kiyomi: [00:45:21] I love that. Would you say too that it's been helpful for you to work around giving yourself compassion for experiencing the blame?
Dehlia: [00:45:29] Yes. And that piece was really hard for me. I'll be honest. Like, I always was confused. It's like, Yeah, I get, I get it. I need to be more compassionate to myself.
Kiyomi: [00:45:38] I got it,
Dehlia: [00:45:40] but I don't really feel compassionate. So I would always get frustrated, and I was like, I always mean, and then I was reading a book and it was explaining, you know, like someone else's experience where I think they were talking about how, you know, guilt really wasn't somebody. It wasn't their fault. They'd just been conditioned their whole life to feel guilty. And they still had these hopes and dreams for their life and these desires. But the guilt was really this stuck energy that was keeping them from realizing it. So I think the compassion piece in this is really understanding mentally and emotionally that it's not your fault that you feel this way like it's just not your fault. And even if you were raised that way, even if you emotionally identify with that, even if everything anyways was like, this is who you are, like, it's really not your fault and you have a choice to separate and unmeshed from that and choose what you want to do moving forward. So I think that compassion piece really materialized for me in that sentence of it's not my fault.
Kiyomi: [00:46:50] I'm going to go a little bit deeper into that because I feel like that's such a gem. If you were to talk to yourself, Dehlia, and explain to yourself and your inner child why it's not their fault, what would you say?
Dehlia: [00:47:02] You're going to make me so
Kiyomi: [00:47:03] going to make myself cry?
Dehlia: [00:47:07] Inner child work is good. If you start crying.
Kiyomi: [00:47:08] it is.
Dehlia: [00:47:13] I just. OK, what was the question?
Kiyomi: [00:47:15] So we can make it even a little bit easier because this I realize, as I said, this is like, this is kind of an intense question. If you speak to someone, let's do it this way. If you were to speak to someone's inner child and they were blaming themselves constantly like they got that ticket. And they're like, It's my fault. I'm inherently wrong. There's something wrong with me. Here I go again. What would you say to that inner child as to why it's not their fault? Because I think that some people will be like, Well, it is my fault. Like, I did it, you know, like, it is my fault. I am inherently wrong. There is something wrong with me. Like, how can we start to work with that inner child and get to that core and get to that part of them to say, Hey, it's not your fault, and you know, I'll let you go with that? But what would you say to someone you were going to pass up?
Dehlia: [00:47:59] This is also what I would say to my inner child as I understand that. But for your inner child, too, if you're listening. There are definitely certain nuances that are interesting, like certain both and situations. I think that voice that says it is my fault the world is going to give us that all the time. You know, and in the realm of the world, yes, there are things that happen that are your fault. And you're right. I got that ticket. It was my fault. But I think our inner child doesn't need that because it knows that in the spirit compassion side comes in and gets to say, it's not your fault that this happened. You know, it's an interesting dichotomy because it is two opposing truths like we can take ownership for something and also comfort our inner child and say, like, this isn't your fault in the sense that it does not define you. And like all of the feelings that may be associated with this event, aren't your fault. You know, really putting that separation between an event or a thing that happens and inherently who you are? Yes, I think that's where my inner child feels most relieved and really needs to hear that even to this moment like, it's not my fault. And like being able to release that grief or. That stuck energy allows me to respond now as an adult in the world to this moment from that place, and now I can make different decisions, and now I can refer to this new version of myself that I'm creating right now in response to this very situation.
Kiyomi: [00:49:48] So beautiful. There's such a difference between, this is me and my core versus I take different actions in life, and I grow and I make mistakes and some things I might have made a fault on and some things I may have done that may have not been the best thing. But that doesn't affect my essence of who I am and the core of the fact that I deserve compassion, even if I did make a mistake. There's a lot of childhood wounds that come around this where for some people their parents have associated you are bad with your action and it's your worth basically like your actions are tied to who you are versus I make actions and I learn and I meant to make mistakes, and I meant to make different faults because that's actually how I grow. I think that there are also some core woundings for some people, and I'm curious how this resonates with you Dehlia around if I don't blame myself, then I will make the mistake again. Right. I don't self-blame then I will continue to make this mistake, which is actually not true. We can make mistakes and not berate ourselves. And in that turn, we actually grow because we are actually more open to the challenges of life and being able to become resilient. So how have you been able to kind of work with that? Because I think that that's such a big part for a lot of people around if I don't berate myself and get upset with myself, then I'm just going to stay stagnant or I'm just going to keep making this mistake.
Dehlia: [00:51:16] And that's an interesting one because I think it comes down to like a base understanding of how human focus and like laws almost of the universe work, like what do we say, the more that we focus on something it's very easy to produce that same result, you know like if I focus on a point in the horizon, I'm going to drive to that point. If it's the same point that I've been trying to avoid because I don't want to be there, I'm going to keep driving to that point. If I had in that direction with my perspective, which is very easy to do, because if you're wasting time berating yourself, then you're always focused mentally on what you've done, which already happened, you know? And I think that's when energy tends to get stuck because you combine that with time and experiences over the course of a lifetime. If all of your energy is going into all of the things that you focused on that you've done wrong, that's going to be how you see yourself. And you don't, whether you choose to or not. But the shift being in the moment when you mess up instead of then berating yourself, you can do that process. We just talked about and really like release that energy and then move forward with something that you do want to do. And the more that you focus on that reality of like, I can do this instead and partner it with a feeling of I'm empowered to do this instead because this is my birthright as a human. It's so much more productive and in the real world. You know what I mean, like, that's how we move past things, and that's how we create new realities. And it's such a better system than the kid getting yelled at.
Kiyomi: [00:53:03] Absolutely.
Dehlia: [00:53:04] You know, like, they can do something different. And it's the coping mechanisms we need if we want to be effective in the world.
Kiyomi: [00:53:11] I think that we're changing the whole paradigm. It's very past generational trauma around this old model of if someone did something wrong, we need to berate them. We need to get upset with them, we need to punish them. And there are reasons as to why that doesn't work, and there are reasons as to why obsessive thinking starts to get bigger. Because of that, you know, even remember the berating that happens, you know, over and over. How do you feel as though this is the switch from the kind of going from that self-blame to OK, I see that and I may have done something a little bit faulty and I'm going to grow from that? How do you feel like that has helped your relationship with your partner?
Dehlia: [00:53:52] So many ways, even as of yesterday, like actually being able to tell him, you know, I feel bad about this instead of just thinking in my head, he thinks I'm a bad person. He's disappointed in me. That voicing what I feel instead of hiding it out of fear that it will be confirmed for me, allows for new realities to enter it, not only for myself on an individual level but also from the information that I gather from those that I love that are close to me. So, yeah, and I think when I'm not tied up in blame or self-guilt, I'm away better partner. Like I'm more effective like I'm able to be more genuine about what I'm feeling and what I'm what is human about me. Instead of always trying to maintain this persona that I'm perfect and I never feel anything hard or anything. And that also helps me understand that in my partner and those around us. So it's a very circular thing like it gives to me, which gets to my partner, which gives to people around me. And it's at the end of the day, it just keeps me from being isolated and afraid. So that's always a good thing.
Kiyomi: [00:55:13] This is like the core, and I think that it would be beautiful just kind of like wrapping up with at the end of this podcast. But I think that it really goes back into and I love when this happens because it's so true, which is what I've noticed within you Dehlia is when you've given yourself that compassion and empathy for not needing to be perfect and when you give yourself space and to say, Oh, I made that mistake, I'm not perfect and I'm still worthy and I'm still lovable. Then that has given you this empathy towards your partner to not probably put your partner on such a pedestal, right? Where I'm sure before when there was this sense of like more of that self-berating and self-blame, it was more like, OK, well, they need to be perfect too, because that's the mirror for myself. So it seems like the more you've given yourself that space, the more empathy you've given to your partner. And then the more that connection and that intimacy has probably started to flourish.
Dehlia: [00:56:12] Absolutely. You've nailed it even before it's come to my full realization. Yes, I definitely mirrored the perfect thing for me, but that is not the reality, and I love that. I love that. That's not reality because. I think it just enhances my own personal sense of power. Like when even today, like I'm like, I realized, you know, like if I don't put my boyfriend on a pedestal, I don't give him all the power anymore, and he never asked for it and if anything, it's been a pressure on him. But like, if I own that, like, you know, it's like I have power too and I can own, then I have power because I'm not so eaten up by this feeling anymore that it's my fault or I'm to blame. Like when I release that energy to make good decisions and to be effective and to, like, take challenges as they come and grow with them, with him. Then like, yeah, I realize how much autonomy and power I have and as an individual. But in my partnership and like that is a beautiful essence of what a partnership is, is like, you don't give that power away.
Kiyomi: [00:57:30] So it's so beautiful. Thank you so much, Dehlia, there are so many things that we've gone through and we spoke about, and I so appreciate you sharing your journey with us. It's just beautiful because it's literally like your journey and your work and your internal healing has really allowed others to heal and allowed others to really foster that wisdom within yourself. But you've also seen that within your partnership, which is just so powerful, and I feel like it's going to continue to unfold and I just thank you. Thank you for being here and sharing your wisdom with us.
Dehlia: [00:58:11] Thank you so much Kiyomi
Kiyomi: [00:58:12] Thank you Dehlia.