Are You Spiritually Bypassing Relationship OCD/Relationship Anxiety? (ft. Manon)
Kiyomi: Hi, everyone, welcome to Awaken into Love, this is the place to be if you're looking for education, wisdom, support, compassion, and an incredible community of people all around the world who experience ROCD and relationship anxiety. If you are practicing spirituality or you were triggered by spirituality then this information and education is for you, I say that specifically because I am extremely passionate about this topic, and I wish I had this information years ago when I had ROCD. And when spirituality was a constant trigger for me, I sat down with Manon to talk to you all about spirituality and how you may be using spirituality in a way that may be bypassing you and your relationship, how you might be using spirituality in the lens of trauma, and how it might be actually furthering your ROCD without you even knowing it. This is such an important topic to talk about you guys because there's nothing like this anywhere out there, and I'm serious about this because Manon and I actually googled and researched it and we tried to find this. But we haven't found anything out there in regards to empowerment with spirituality and ROCD. The spiritual community is amazing, but there are a lot of shadows with the spiritual community where they don't talk too much about the mental health impact, how trauma can really be clouded within our lens of spirituality, how we can use spiritual bypassing, how we can use spirituality as a coping mechanism without recognizing it, and how a lot of their expressions and beliefs can actually hurt someone who has ROCD and OCD. I know what it feels like to want to deepen spirituality. I know what it feels like to want to have a connection and to feel more peace and feel connected to something greater. But I didn't know how to get there when I had ROCD because everything I read on spirituality was triggering. Next week on February 22nd, 2022, 2.22.22 specifically for angel numbers to help you with exposure. Manon, my dear friend, who is such an expert with spirituality and ROCD and I are going to be leading a 90 minute class all on understanding how you can find deeper fulfillment and empowerment with spirituality while having ROCD. We're going to teach you all about spiritual bypassing. We're going to teach you all about the psychology of spirituality combined with ROCD. We're going to talk about signs, angel numbers, God, the universe, manifestation, law of attraction, tarot cards, dreams. Anything in regards to spirituality was there to help you. And it's going to be amazing because we're going to be doing exposure work in class as well. If you can't attend this class, that's so OK. There will be a replay sent 24 hours after the class ends directly into your email, so you get all the information anyway for the rest of your life. We're so excited to be leading this class. We've never seen another class like this before, and it's something I desperately needed when I had ROCD, so I'm so excited to lead you into it. I'm so excited to help you in a way that's empowering, that helps your heart and that helps your triggers and where you can use spirituality to help ROCD in a way to help you find freedom from it and to also feel deeper in love and connected with your partner, and also to something greater that you were. You are so held and you are so supported and you are so loved. In the meantime, please enjoy this interview that I did with my lovely, lovely friend Manon, where we talk about a couple of spiritual red flags that you may not realize are hurting your relationship and ROCD. Enjoy.
Kiyomi: [00:03:25] Hi, everyone. Welcome to the Awaken into Love podcast. We are on episode number 33 of the podcast of Awaken into Love, and we're also on YouTube. So hi to everyone. I'm so, so, so thrilled to be here. I'm so thrilled to be talking to you about spirituality and ROCD today, but coming from personal experiences and things that we really recognize that we really wanted to share with you today. So welcome to the podcast. Welcome. I'm here with the amazing Manon who is such a dear friend of mine and someone amazing who's going to be working with me and leading the new awakened session that's going to take place on February 22nd, 2.22.22 next week. And it's going to be all about understanding and recognizing spirituality, spiritual bypassing red flags and spirituality alongside ROCD. So welcome, anon. So happy to have you.
Manon: [00:04:23] Welcome. Hello, Kiyomi. So happy to be here.
Kiyomi: [00:04:27] I think that you and I just talked about this and we were like, There is nothing out there that we found on ROCD and spirituality and how passionate you and I are about this topic because we've personally gone through such difficulty with spirituality in ROCD, right? I mean, you and I even said before the podcast, we were like, I don't even, you know, I don't even remember too much about it now because we've really worked through it. And that's why we're here, because we want to show you that it's possible you can work through spirituality and ROCD. But when you went through it. It was really challenging, right?
Manon: [00:05:03] Yeah, absolutely. So challenging at first, because just what you say there is and there was and there is still nothing on the entire internet and trust me, I searched it from top to bottom, like I went into deep rabbit holes and there is nothing, there is nothing about this. And even though a little bit now about trauma and spirituality, but really something that is tailored and especially made for relationship anxiety, relationship OCD, which is a very specific topic too. There is nothing. So yes, it was very hard to be alone on this journey. And I remember just as a side note, like speaking to you when I was into the Awaken into Love community and telling you, please do something in spirituality is such a trigger for me, and I have no place to go for this. And you telling me yes, we will do something, I promise.
Kiyomi: [00:06:00] So here we are, doing it together. It's amazing. So this I mean, this whole podcast episode is going to be for you if you are triggered by anything in regards to spirituality. So we're going to widen it a little bit more and also see religion as well. I know many people who struggle with ROCD connected to religious trauma, and they don't see the ties, the connection of that. This podcast is going to be for you if you're triggered by anything regarding God, higher power, God's voice, intuition, the God, tarot cards, astrology. I know some people have even said that they've gone to astrologers, and some astrologers have said that they shouldn't be with their partners. I can't. I can't imagine. I never had that experience. I don't know Manon if you did. But so triggering
Manon: [00:06:46] Not really. No, not with an astrologer, but like, you know, pulling some oracle cards that say stuff like, Let it all go, cut off your relationship. I don't know. Let it go
Kiyomi: [00:06:59] Yes, anything like that? Psychics, you know anything in regards to that? I think a really big one that people really get stuck on so much is trusting your gut. Listen to that small voice. Listen to our intuition. And a lot of people are like, Wow, I don't even understand what intuition is. So when we do this awaken session next week, we'll be talking all about this. But we really wanted to come up here and talk to you all about our personal experience and to also just become more aware and cognizant of different red flags in spirituality that you can pay attention to. And we'll be talking all about that today, which we're so excited for. So Manon, I know you said something a little bit earlier, which I want to go back to what you said. I used to Google all the time on spirituality and ROCD. Do you remember what type of things you were Google for? Like, what were you desperately looking for when you were Googling?
Manon: [00:07:48] Yeah. What I was desperately looking for was someone really bridging these gaps that were existing for me in my life and in this area of spirituality, I felt like every piece of education, piece of spiritual practice that I was bumping into were very for kind of narrow, typical person, like there were no reference to the nervous system, to obsessive thinking it was really made for people that seemed to have like a normal brain working normally and how it is when you have ROCD, you can feel so obsessive, so tense, so nervous around doing it perfectly or knowing exactly that uncertainty is kind of, yeah, it's so awful to experience that. And so I was looking for someone like, Kiyomi or someone saying, like, Yes, we know that you are not like, can I say that you don't have a problem? It's just that you have ROCD and we have the solution for you. You can find a solution to combine both. You don't have to step away from spirituality because it's something I think I share with you. I was so sad to step away from it because it feels so triggering. But at the same time, I felt like it was such a pull in my life to go deeper into my spiritual practice.
Kiyomi: [00:09:14] I love that you said that because I've definitely gotten some people and this is also my journey as well. Before ROCD hit, I love spirituality and you know, I was doing yoga and meditation and anything that had to do with spirituality. Now I realize it was actually kind of a coping mechanism, but back then I was like, I need to be doing these spiritual practices. You know, if I'm not doing these practices, then I'm not achieving X, Y and Z, or I'm not good enough. But I was really, really in love with spirituality. And then when ROCD hit, it was almost like I had to let go of my spiritual practices. I don't know if you had that experience too, but I felt like I had to let go because everything that I was doing with spirituality was pulling out a card, listening to God's voice, praying. I was like, Oh my God, that's God's voice telling me, I need to leave my partner, you know, because I have this gut feeling, and what do I do? So I really liked letting go of my spiritual practice until I realized that I had an interesting relationship with spirituality. I was almost using it as a coping mechanism. I don't know if you experienced that too, but this is something that I found really passionate about myself and the work that I think a lot of people with ROCD. If they are triggered in spirituality, that's actually a good sign because I feel that there's something within them calling them deeper into true spirituality. I think right now, for a lot of people with ROCD, they're almost using it as a bypass in some way. So I kind of went through an experience where I was like, Wow, you know, up and down, up and down. And there's some people who say, I let go of my spiritual practice completely because I don't know what to do. And then there's some people who are like, I want to start, but I don't know how. I don't know how your journey went. Did you have ROCD and like to let go of the spiritual practices or did you dive in? What was it like for you?
Manon: [00:11:09] Yeah, it's an interesting question there. When you were speaking, I kind of reflected back on my journey, and for me, it started when I was very young, like 13, 14 because I had my first boyfriend, very young and ROCD hit at that time. So at that time, I don't think I was already spiritual or into spirituality, but I think I dived into spirituality first as a compulsion, as a compulsion, because since ROCD hit with this boyfriend, I was very young. I think I went into astrology or I don't know stuff like that to see if it was the right relationship, if there was a problem with that. But I was very young at that time. So I think I really dove into spirituality since I'm. Yeah. Like, five, six, seven years ago when I went into the healing world also, because there is as much as I was going into this journey, I discovered new areas of healing new stuff that I could do to help my journey, we can find so much in the internet, which is also a blessing and a curse. But when I realized and it feels so right, what you say about like now coming to this very simple and pure spirituality, and I realized that most of the time before it was more of a compulsion. I wanted to be spiritual. And this is why when I heard that maybe I had to step away for a little time because I need healing from ROCD, I felt like I was. How can I say that I was forced to step away from something that was kind of compulsive for me, so that's why it was so hard to step away. And I realized now that coming to a practice in something that's more natural, more genuine is more natural when before it was more compulsive, I don't know if it makes sense, it's so tricky to explain because it's so complex and so subtle too, depending on the person.
Kiyomi: [00:13:16] It makes total sense, and what I'm hearing in a big way is that you were using spirituality as a compulsion. A lot of people don't realize that they're doing that. And so what I want to say first and foremost about that is for anyone who's listening or watching right now, if you're like, Oh my God, maybe I'm using spirituality as a compulsion. I just want to say, that's OK. Like, I've done it, Manon has done it, most people do it. It doesn't mean it's right or wrong or you're bad in any way. It's a lot of the journey of what people need to go through in order for them to actually come deeper into the essence of their heart. I think one big thing for me when I was going through the triggers of spirituality is like, Oh my God, I wish Joel was more spiritual and I put so much pressure on Joel for being spiritual to have this conversation with him, but I know I told you where I was like, You know, like, I just don't get it. I was like, I'm so much more spiritual than you, you're just so much lower. Like, I said those things to him and he was like, You know Kiyomi, I feel like I'm already spiritual as just being human and being in my heart. And I remember my ego being like, No, you haven't done this or this or this, you're not coming. You're not doing your tarot cards, you know? And come to realize so many years later, I've come to realize the true beauty and the power of spirituality comes into being human in this human experience. And so much of what I was triggered by is what taught me to come deeper into spirituality, which is such a powerful lesson which we'll be teaching people in the masterclass as well. But I don't know if you had anything similar in regards to your journey, but it's so interesting how we can point, right? It's a projection.
Manon: [00:15:09] Yeah. Oh my god, yes. Yes, I've been through that and all this kind of feeling superior to him because I'm more spiritual when I'm not actually spiritual, I'm not practicing what we are sold on the internet that is spiritual. So having as many crystals that you can have. Having Oracle cards and saging, you know, like all this stuff, that it can be right. I do it like when I feel like but there is such. How can I say that their dogma or paradigm of spirituality on social media, that there is so much superficial stuff like it's like you have to have so many access words to be spiritual. You have to wear, I don't know, like something here and and I don't know like yet. There are so many things and I like words in English
Kiyomi: [00:16:04] that it's like exactly in order for you to achieve X, Y and Z in order for you to be worthy and spiritual.
Manon: [00:16:12] Yeah, exactly. And you know, I think it's something we haven't spoken yet, but a big fear in spirituality for me was to outgrow my partner. And it's related to, like you say, that because if I was getting more spiritual and there is a bit of Existentialism OCD too, in that if I was going too deep, too far too, I will be totally disconnected from real life, normal life, mundane life and from my partner too, in a way. And it's funny what you say, because now I think I've overcome this. Of course, it's never perfect. Sometimes I can go back to this trigger too, but I see my partner as my guru now. He Is the one more spiritual than me, sometimes just by being in his view of the world. And I realized that it was kind of complexifying so much stuff when it's more simple.
Kiyomi: [00:17:11] Yeah, I I love there's actually one quote or something that I always just kind of looked into, which is that, you know, your partner is a mirror of yourself and your partner because they are closest to us is mirroring you. Everything that is going to irritate you annoy you. And it's almost like your partner is the biggest teacher because it's your exact mirror. And I think that I've used that when I had spirituality, especially to be like, OK, like, what is this teaching me? What is this showing me? And how can I bring compassion to that? There's just so much that we can go into here, but there was something that I kind of wanted to go into a little bit before when you talked about Googling things and you not being able to find things for people who weren't neurotypical, could you go into that a little bit for people who might not know what neurotypical? Yeah.
Manon: [00:18:05] So when I say someone that is neurotypical, it's someone that has not an obsessive brain or signs of OCD, which can also be related to autism. I know in ADHD. So it's more or less a brain that is. I don't like the word normal normal, because I think we are normal
Kiyomi: [00:18:27] In society
Manon: [00:18:30] In society, so. Yeah, I was looking for something that was kind of encompassing all the diversity of brain that we can have and also the fact that and that's related to a red flag when you mentioned red flag in spirituality, for example, is a spiritual teacher like not considering trauma at all when we know that it's something that will kind of modify and change our approach to spirituality, whether it's meditation practices or intuition, because due to trauma and the nervous system is wired in a way that, for example, is not possible to trust your gut because your gut will tell you exactly what you fear of and not what is your truth. So it's kind of finding, yeah, resources that are encompassing the diversity of what we are in in our mental health journey. And honestly, it's something that I haven't found anywhere. We were joking that it can be a marketing tool by saying, you can find it only here, but it's actually true.
Kiyomi: [00:19:40] We haven't found it anywhere, which is why we're doing this. Yeah, I mean, like, I want to pause for just a moment because you guys, this is so freakin' important. If you like anything in regards to spirituality and religion like this is the information that I needed so desperately when I was so caught in spirituality. And what we want to focus on today with this podcast is for you to start to become aware of different red flags and spirituality so you can be cognizant so you can see stuff, question and decide if it works for you or not. Our whole masterclass is going to be all on empowerment so you can finally take charge and control so you feel like you aren't disempowered by reading a specific article like We have that sovereignty, we have that empowerment. We just forget that when ROCD takes over. But there are a lot of red flag issues in spirituality. So something that's really important is that you talked about Manon, which is the impact of trauma. When we're looking at life through the lens of trauma, especially with spirituality, it's so important that spiritual teachers put this information out there. That's why it's so triggering. I think that if different spiritual practices and different teachers are put on their website. OK, disclaimer If you have mental health issues or if you experience ROCD, please listen to this carefully. I think that would be a lot more helpful, don't you think? I think that there's lack of mental health awareness and lack of trauma out there, which is really infuriating in a lot of ways to me because it can fuel ROCD, it can fuel anxiety, can fuel that shame and unworthiness.
Manon: [00:21:19] Yeah, definitely. The fact that nobody is actually mentioning it kind of fuels this cycle of OCD. When you fight, you end up thinking that if nobody is talking about it, maybe it doesn't exist. And maybe so. It's not even true that I have ROCD and it's me the problem and everything, you know? So and even when I was because you know it, like I've been part of some spiritual programs and stuff because I was very interested in this and I wanted to dive in even if I had ROCD, which is another story. But it has helped me also to heal from it because I went into it. It was a kind of exposure work, but in those kinds of programs, I raised my hand and asked this teacher in front of them, What do you think about people who are not neurotypical, who have ROCD and everything? And often. They are kind of a bit embarrassed because they don't know exactly what to say, and it is true that most spiritual teachers are kind of bypassing this question, and I felt like in a way they were hoping that nobody was going to ask them this question because they don't know exactly how to answer. And that's the truth. And that's put me in such an anxious position, sometimes because I was like, OK, so I have to find my answers myself. I have to. But in a way, and this is what we want and tell me if I'm wrong. But in this masterclass, it's telling you that even if it's scary to not have the answer and to not have experts because there are few kinds of are not anyone, actually, if these people don't have your answers, it doesn't mean that you have a problem. It means that you have the power to find your own answers. And that's such an empowering one. Really, that's what we want to share with you. I think Kiyomi, right?
Kiyomi: [00:23:15] I love that. Absolutely. And oh my god, I mean, this is so true. I think that there's a lot of stuff where, you know, in the masterclass, we'll talk more about this. But I do want to talk about this here, which is that our psychology is so entwined with everything in life, but it's so heavily entwined in religion, in spirituality, especially so the dynamic of how we perceive God or how we perceive like a mother, spiritual figure like Mother Mary or Bodhisattva or Quanjian, how we perceive them is actually a projection of how we perceive our parents. So in a lot of cases, a lot of spiritual practices and teachers don't talk about that. And also something that I realized recently is working with, like the work of manifestation, law of attraction and the universe. There's almost like this reward system going on right. If I am in a highly enlightened spiritual high vibrational place, then the world works for me. If I don't, if I'm in low vibration or if I'm with a partner that has low vibration, then the world doesn't work for me. Psychologically, what that reflects is if I don't do or be a certain way, I am not loved and I am not lovable. I've never heard that before in any spiritual teachings around mental health. But the connection of it is so, so, so true. And I wish there was more information out there. But there is a lot of that spiritual bypassing and a lot of the red flags. And I think another big one that a lot of people with ROCD get really stuck up on is like intrusive thoughts. If I have this thought it means and it's going to come true, oh my God, it's so damaging. I can tell right now
Manon: [00:25:03] it's really awful
Kiyomi: [00:25:04] It's horrible, horrible for someone to hear my thoughts become things. You know, there is the emphasis on the more we think of something or the more we go into behavior. It's going to dictate kind of how we're living our life. But it doesn't have to be so black or white where we go. If I have this thought or I think this thing, then it's going to come true. It's really horrifying to believe that and to just kind of be, I mean, I'm imagining people having intrusive thoughts and being like just locking themself up in a room because they feel so shameful and scared.
Manon: [00:25:40] Yeah, it's awful, and especially when you speak for experience, we there is ROCD, but there are often other kind of OCD, including POCD, Harm OCD, and in these cases can be very, very harmful to the point that someone can become suicidal because of the thinking that what they think will happen. I've been there and it's like, it's hell on Earth, really. And it's very preoccupying for me that people are sharing messages on the internet, saying your thoughts, creating your reality because first it's but I know they're not making it up on purpose. It's mostly because there is such an awareness around mental mental health and those topics that are very in a way immoral in society, speaking about these kinds of things. It's mostly kept under the rug, but it's a reality, and it can lead to very, very serious conditions for people. And in a way, also I kind of think that saying stuff like that is very misinformed, too, because as Kiyomi was saying, when you dive a little bit deeper, you know that a thought alone can never create reality. So it's our kind of accumulation. And at one point they became a belief, a belief system. And this belief system will create your reality in a way, but it's way more subtle and complex than that. So there is really a lack of specificity and education on this topic, and everyone on the internet can become a coach and become, you know, kind of an influencer with words like that. And it's so easy when you have hours, when you have low self-esteem, no self trust to kind of fall into these holes. And I've been there like so many times, and it's still open sometimes.
Kiyomi: [00:27:41] So I think what's so hard, especially with the spiritual community too, is it's supposed to be helpful for you, right? It's not like we're going into a community that's full of violence. Like people usually go into a community that's full of violence and expect violence. But when people go into a community that's supposed to be love and light and spurs geared toward helping you, it's even more confusing. Like there is gaslighting that definitely happens. Have you experienced that personally and on gaslighting just in terms of spirituality or mixed with ROCD in any ways? Because that can exclude you?
Manon: [00:28:18] Can you explain a bit more what you hear about gaslighting? Maybe to insert precisely.
Kiyomi: [00:28:23] Yeah, I think that gaslighting when I think of an ROCD is it can definitely be, you know, if someone's feeling a certain way about their partner, then someone might say, you know, Oh, you shouldn't feel that you need to just feel all positivity. Kind of like diminishing the person's situation and experience and kind of bypassing that or just kind of pretending like, Oh, that's all you, that's just your thing and has nothing to do with me. I'm more spiritual than you. I know better. It's kind of an expert type of thing, which is definitely something that we'll talk about too. But you know, I know better. You don't. And let me tell you,
Manon: [00:29:08] Yeah, I've been experiencing that mostly, but not just in the spiritual community, by the way, in the society in general, there is this tendency to think that and it's more ROCD related, something you explained very well in the ROCD course level one, that in society, we think that we are our thoughts. So if I think that I don't feel comfortable and also with my partner, which means that I don't love him, that I have to leave, it's something that's very common even among my friends. The people I know, like there was this tendency to believe that it works like that and it's a spiritual word. It's for me even worse because it's like it's kind of like you attract your like your vibes, attract the vibes that if someone doesn't have good vibes around you, you should just distance yourself from them. And I think it's so damaging and awful in a way because it's kind of very individualistic and tends to think that you are already perfect. Your energy is perfect, you don't have to work, and you just have to choose the people you're with and being with your partner or your friends and everything. And it's something I see a lot on the internet, and that for me has been very triggering, like extremely triggering and that makes me feel a bit better and I gained some empowerment about that. I'm rather angry at that because I'm like, it's the exact opposite that, any good relationship therapists or Awaken into Love that we will say that there is always something to work, there is projection, you can work, you can try to make things better. It doesn't mean that there are no red flags in a relationship, of course, but that doesn't mean that if someone is a bit pessimistic or is a bit depressed, you have to just get away from him. You know what I mean? It's really something that I've been experiencing in spirituality.
Kiyomi: [00:31:12] of a million percent. I totally had this one. Now that you're talking about it, I think at one phase I was like, Oh, like, you know, looking at everything that Joel was doing wrong and in my eye, I wasn't spiritual enough in my eye and I would be like, Oh, but you know, all these community spiritual community members are saying that like, once I grow or once I, you know, if I'm really into spirituality, then I'm going to cut out people in my life who are not spiritual enough. That is such a bypass as a start can be a red flag too with spirituality, which is that, you know, there definitely is a journey that people go through when they go through spirituality or kind of like that process of the self growth where they do look at certain people in their life and they're like, OK, I'm going to put stronger boundaries here. This is important, you know, or this person isn't really helping me in this way, and they're really not serving me in the greatest way. But then there's also the aspect that you're talking about, which is like, OK, this person is, you know, doing things I don't like. I'm not going to communicate with them. I'm just going to cut them off completely because their lower vibration and they're not good for me. Yeah, right. So I think that that's what we're talking about in terms of relationship stuff where sometimes spiritual communities will be like, you know, if they're a certain way or they're going through stuff, they're not high vibe enough. And all of these types of things, and that's what I'm hearing from you. It's so black or white.
Manon: [00:32:37] Exactly that my partner can sometimes be pessimistic or depressed or is getting angry. I don't know with his children or something like that. And I was like, OK, he's not high vibe, so I should just step away from him, which seems very black and white and crazy when I think about it right now. But when you're really immersed in this kind of thinking and you are fueled by posts on Instagram every day, you really end up being like, Maybe, maybe this is what I should do. And it's so disempowering to tell people stuff like that.
Kiyomi: [00:33:14] It's so disempowering. And you know what, we really wanted to do today's podcast and YouTube video just to give you more awareness. So when you see certain posts or when you hear certain things from spiritual teachings or religious teachings that you have the ability to be like, there are such things as spiritual red flags and spiritual bypassing to look up for just quickly spiritual bypassing. You know we talked about it in other podcasts as well. Spiritual bypassing is the ability to bypass situations in order to not look at our own shadow or our own stuff. So like, I gave the example earlier of if I were to approach someone and be like, you know, I'm feeling really low. If another person said to me, You know, you can't feel like you're low here, you only have to feel good vibes. That's a bypass. To not look at the shadow of what's coming up here. So there's a lot of that. So we really wanted to do this podcast to be like, Hey, guys, if you're struggling, there is a thing called spiritual red flag, spiritual bypassing. We're really passionate about it because we've gone through it, especially with ROCD, and that there's hope. I think that the biggest thing with Awaken into Love and something that you are passionate about Manon is empowerment to empower people and to remind them because this is actually another spiritual red flag is that if you ever hear a teacher or someone say, I know more than you or, you know, I know the way and this is the only way. That is a form of spiritual red flags, for sure.
Manon: [00:34:51] Yeah, and it's also, if I may, just sometimes some spiritual teachers are not saying, you know, something so direct by saying, I know more than you, they can say stuff also that I will help you get back to your own inner wisdom, which is amazing. We love that too. But some people there will tell you that. And at the same time, they will inundate you with contradictory things like you have your own wisdom, but you must know that if you feel this, this means that sometimes it's sober. You know what I mean? Sometimes like, OK, it wants to bring me back to my own wisdom. That sounds amazing, right? And after it was like, OK, but actually the least telling me how to see the world and how my partner, he's in the whole what I should do. So it's not exactly that, right?
Kiyomi: [00:35:42] It's a bit murky. It's super, super murky. So we want to just remind you all that you have the ability to always question what you hear from your sovereign. You have that ability to empower yourself. And it's super disempowering to see different teachers or different posts. And at the end of the day, we're all trying our best. So not to be here to shame anyone, you know, everything can be a lesson in a lot of ways. We're trying a lot of spiritual teachers out there. It's not so black or white at the end of the day. Some of the spiritual practitioners who are teaching this and who are doing some bypassing can also be absolutely amazing and you can learn a lot from them. You know, there's beauty and there's challenges and everything. It's not so black or white. But we also have the ability to say, OK, this person is amazing, but this doesn't resonate with me and I'm not going to take that or this person. I really like what they said here, but this part I don't really agree with. Maybe I'll have a conversation with them or I'm just going to step out and I'm going to empower myself in a different way. So that's really what we wanted to share with you today. We really wanted to leave you off with just a sense of empowerment and also a sense of education and knowledge, because again, there's nothing out there like we're doing right now with this podcast, and we're so excited about this. Masterclass is happening on Tuesday, right?
Manon: [00:37:02] think it's next February 22nd.
Kiyomi: [00:37:05] Twenty two we will link all of that down below. Yeah. Who are interested in spirituality and you're wanting to dive in and also use spirituality in a way to empower you and your relationship? Get through the bypasses. Understand the red flag issues, but then also work through some triggers that are coming up. We're going to be doing something really fun Manon where we're going to actually pull out certain Oracle cards and angel cards, and we're going to exposure work and signs and any personal questions.
Manon: [00:37:35] Yeah, yeah. Everything. Very juicy stuff and exercise. Very practical because I told Kiyomi when we were working on this masterclass that I kind of dream before us having, yeah, someone saying like, OK, so I'm going to show you exactly how you can work with your triggers when you pull an oracle card, when you see your astrological chart, some stuff like that to be very practical and show you how you can clearly and practically work on this triggers when they come in very practical situations.
Kiyomi: [00:38:07] So it's going to be amazing. I wish I had it 10 years ago. I wish I had a good one. I need to do it. Yeah, it's going to be amazing and we're so excited to have you. It's going to be our class if you can't join. You're always welcome to get the replay. You can have it for the rest of your life. It is going to be one of the most empowering awakened sessions that we've ever done, and there's nothing anything like there. So like this. So we're very, very excited to share with you what we learned and how we really got there, finding empowerment with ROCD and spirituality.
Manon: [00:38:36] Yeah, so much in that. And I just wanted to share also that if there are people that are not clearly spiritual that are watching or religious, that watching this video or listening to this podcast, I know because I've I've had some contact with people saying I'm kind of a skeptic, so I'm not. I want to dive into spirituality, but I'm not sure if it's for me because it's uncertain and it doesn't feel right. Just know that it's also made for you because it will be an initiation to spirituality, a very gentle approach. So no need to be like all in tarot and astrology. We'll be talking also on a different topic like everything, what is spirituality and everything. So you're also very excited.
Kiyomi: [00:39:20] We're so excited to power you, and we're so excited to be here. Thank you Manon so much for being here, for having your wisdom and your personal experiences with ROCD and spirituality. And if you decide to join us for next Tuesday, we chose it on purpose for 2.22.22 for angel numbers to help you with that exposure work as well.
Manon: [00:39:38] And we'll be saying it's a sign to say
Kiyomi: [00:39:43] thank you everyone for being here, and here's to being human, everyone. Thank you Manon.